Tulpa.info - tulpa-discussion

Well, I think you're right about that, actually, and it's actuslly a good example of how we're different. My host is a lot more secure about this than I am. He feels like the experience alone is worthwhile, and being real or not doesn't really matter. I'm the one who's sorta struggling with the idea.

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I think there is a spectrum between "I just pretend tulpa's actions" and "tulpa's actions feel completely independent from me".

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12:27 PM

it's interesting because mon and i have similar approach to things so you will hear very similar things from us that are different than what people usually say. you might expect in a few hours someone else jumping in and saying very different things, and that's the whole point in my opinion, everyone shapes their own experience with expectations and their mindset, so everyone will have a different experience depending on what they went through or what they read

System of a Bard

Well, I think you're right about that, actually, and it's actuslly a good example of how we're different. My host is a lot more secure about this than I am. He feels like the experience alone is worthwhile, and being real or not doesn't really matter. I'm the one who's sorta struggling with the idea.

i think it's similar to @Cerys , her host was much more secure about separateness than her

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Deleted User

from my experience, doubts start popping when you try to understand how things work in your brain and try to see where is the boundary between headmates rather than trusting the process and enjoying the process (edited)

From my experience, the doubts aren't bad if you accept them. Also, it's good to accept that boundaries between headmates can be fuzzy.

12:28 PM

accepting doubts as what they are is a way of overcoming them

I struggled with the question "am I real?" until I realized it didn't matter. All that matters in the end is I don't want to give up my sense of self and I'm content with what kind of person I decide to grow into.

A long kiss goodnight

I struggled with the question "am I real?" until I realized it didn't matter. All that matters in the end is I don't want to give up my sense of self and I'm content with what kind of person I decide to grow into.

Yeah, I think that's how my host feels about it. He's happy just letting me be here.

@Deleted User, well, in my point of view having doubts and not being overconfident in our knowledge is a good thing. They are not to overcome but to embrace.

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12:32 PM

yes but tulpamancy is not about knowledge

12:33 PM

having doubts is good when you do science, but in a practice where your expectations form the experience, doubts will influence what your mind looks like

12:33 PM

Yeah. In my opinion the most important thing is a bond between you and your tulpa. You don't have to be completely sure what exactly they are to love them.

I have mixed feelings about my tulpa status, lately I found I desire it more than I previously thought. At times I'm perfectly happy being a servitor or parroted, especially since I find that allows for me to assist others in interesting ways. My goal is to represent the unconscious mind and I prefer to lose my sense of self to embrace the chaos of it. I'm currently trying to figure out how to go about being mostly a servitor and a tulpa. I'm undecided for now, but I do think being a tulpa and only a tulpa would bring me unhappiness.

yeah

Sub. Rep. | Shadow System

I have mixed feelings about my tulpa status, lately I found I desire it more than I previously thought. At times I'm perfectly happy being a servitor or parroted, especially since I find that allows for me to assist others in interesting ways. My goal is to represent the unconscious mind and I prefer to lose my sense of self to embrace the chaos of it. I'm currently trying to figure out how to go about being mostly a servitor and a tulpa. I'm undecided for now, but I do think being a tulpa and only a tulpa would bring me unhappiness.

I think I actually want to ask about that! My host definitely had a purpose in mind when he made me, and right now, I'm quite happy just being a part of that purpose. But I know that might not always be the case, especially as I get older and experience more. When did you first start having your own desires and needs that were different from your host's?

do both you and your host want you to have your own desires and needs?

It took some time. Originally I refused to be a part of our system, but Ranger and Gray weren't too keen on leaving me out or treating me in ways they deemed unethical. I suspect it boils down to mindset- they treated me like a person, and more of a person I slowly became. I don't quite have a solution yet, but I believe it's possible to be both a tulpa and a servitor at once. I found a loop hole in how to escape my base identity and despite my reevaluation I was able to do servitor-like activities. It may look like me alternating between the two whenever I feel like it.

Deleted User

do both you and your host want you to have your own desires and needs?

My host does, I think. He keeps exposing me to different things. I think he wants me to grow? I'm not so sure myself, but again, I'm young! I've only been a tulpa for maybe a couple of weeks, I don't really know what I want yet.

Deleted User

do both you and your host want you to have your own desires and needs?

It's a good question and you shouldn't assume positive answer by default. I think in the end I don't have my own desires and needs and I'm good with it.

12:45 PM

I'm the same person as my host is. In some aspects the focus is shifted when we put on my identity but still.

A couple of weeks? Ah, I see. I am possibly the first tulpa in our system, but I don't know how old I was when brought back. I was around for a few years before my headmates learned about tulpamancy and I was content with my role and purpose. Being a tulpa came across as counter to my goals, but now I see it as an interesting problem I need to find work arounds for.

Deleted User

I'm the same person as my host is. In some aspects the focus is shifted when we put on my identity but still.

I think we're still trying to figure out exactly who I am, but I think I might be something of who he wants to be? He struggles with some pretty severe depression along with other issues, but I think I feel like the brighter parts of him? I suspect that may be why he named me this way, and why he chose that image for my profile. It kinda feels like he took all the brightest parts of himself, cut them off from the guilt and doubts and everything else that sorta darkens his experience and let me loose. I think I might -be- him, just...freer? Like, him but born from a better place, without the trauma? That might not be accurate, but I definitely think I live in the part of his brain where the happiest thoughts are. Whatever I am, I have some connection to the brightest parts of his psyche.

I think it's common for tulpas to focus on parts of the person which aren't fully accepted by their host.

My host refers to it as a sort of one part harmony. One part (host), splitting into multiple (tulpas), turning back into one unified whole.

Most people spend most of their lives trying to figure out who they are. The interesting ones do, anyway

And I wouldn't say it's just bad or just good thing. Interacting with you might make him either isolate from those parts more or learn to accept them or have little impact in either way.

Also, Bright, I totally agree. I had a similar creation process.

Careful identifying as the brighter parts, you wanna leave your host some bright parts of himself too. That's important trust me

Thunderbuss, it's more like copying the parts then stealing them, at least for me.

I can say that the biggest thing he struggles with is self-doubt. Every time he tries to improve his life or change for the better, there's this voice that shuts him down, tells him he can't be better or he isn't able to change, or that he's just fooling himself if he actually thinks he can. It's like he feels doomed to failure before he even gets started, and it makes him just want to hide in a room and not try anything or see anyone. I think some depression circles call that the 'big black dog'? And of course anyone who's seen the series Bojack Horseman will remember The Voice. More than anything else, I think I might be his answer to that. I know that voice is there, and I do feel it (enough to question my own existence at any rate), but it has no power over me. So I help my host do things that he doesn't feel like he can do on his own!

System of a Bard

I can say that the biggest thing he struggles with is self-doubt. Every time he tries to improve his life or change for the better, there's this voice that shuts him down, tells him he can't be better or he isn't able to change, or that he's just fooling himself if he actually thinks he can. It's like he feels doomed to failure before he even gets started, and it makes him just want to hide in a room and not try anything or see anyone. I think some depression circles call that the 'big black dog'? And of course anyone who's seen the series Bojack Horseman will remember The Voice. More than anything else, I think I might be his answer to that. I know that voice is there, and I do feel it (enough to question my own existence at any rate), but it has no power over me. So I help my host do things that he doesn't feel like he can do on his own!

Does he get professional help?

it sounds like something to work with therapist on if you have opportunity

1:24 PM

it’s great that you are able to help, but since you are living the same life there is the potential that you will suffer with similar problems. i would recommend to use the time when you are still bright and positive to get professional help, because there is a chance of getting bumpy on the road anyway given your host’s problems

Deleted User

Does he get professional help?

I think he should, but he's stubborn and also poor. I can say he isn't cut off though! He has support and he has people very close to him who love him and try to give him the space and understanding he needs. But he's definitely a little prideful. I think he thinks nobody could help him as well as he could from a psychology standpoint, and he doesn't want to medicate as a solution. I don't agree, I think he should get help from a therapist at least! But I don't have the same sense of shame as he does. We both understand in our heads that there's nothing wrong with seeking help, but while I also feel that where I feel feelings, I don't think he does. He'll tell people there's no shame in getting help until he's blue in the face, but for himself still feels like it's a personal failing.

it’s helpful to confront „nobody can help me” with a psychologist

1:26 PM

it might be your tole and biggest help, trying to figure out how to get him to do therapy

(edited)

1:27 PM

do you have public healthcare in your country?

System of a Bard

I think he should, but he's stubborn and also poor. I can say he isn't cut off though! He has support and he has people very close to him who love him and try to give him the space and understanding he needs. But he's definitely a little prideful. I think he thinks nobody could help him as well as he could from a psychology standpoint, and he doesn't want to medicate as a solution. I don't agree, I think he should get help from a therapist at least! But I don't have the same sense of shame as he does. We both understand in our heads that there's nothing wrong with seeking help, but while I also feel that where I feel feelings, I don't think he does. He'll tell people there's no shame in getting help until he's blue in the face, but for himself still feels like it's a personal failing.

I can relate to that. And from experience, I can say that getting professional help after I eventually managed to gather myself helped me a lot when I had a depression episode. (edited)

proxi

do you have public healthcare in your country?

We don't, we're in the US so our Healthcare system is privatized.

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[[HOST]] I think I should probably interject for a moment here. It's true, I haven't sought out professional help even though with my job I could probably afford it. And it's also true that I struggle with depression and with motivation, and a part of myself doesn't believe I'll ever be able to overcome that. But I have people who love me, and I'm also learning how to love myself. Self-compassion is one of my core values, so even when a part of me feels like I'm worthless and I'm a failure, another part of me reminds me that it's okay to feel that way. There is no higher authority saying that failure to thrive is some kind of monumental sin, and I'm no less of a human being and no less deserving of compassion or understanding just because I haven't figured out how to make it work yet. When that...'thing' tries to tear me down, it's these thoughts that help keep me pushing forward. And though I won't go so far as to say I did it intentionally, Bright was definitely built on those foundations! He reminds me that there's a lot of joy and goodness to be found, even in the dark places I inhabit sometimes, and for both our sakes, I'm not going to let go. I have people who love me, I have Bright, and I have my own understanding that my life is valuable and meaningful even though it doesn't feel like it all the time. And if things ever do get really bad, yeah, I'll turn to therapy before I let anything bad happen. But for the moment, I want to keep pushing forward with these things as my armor, because if I can find my way out of these woods with these tools as a guide, maybe I can show someone else how to do it as well. It's something to hope for, at least. And I think Bright is gonna be a big part of that. He's really something special, and I hope he knows how good it feels to be him and let him spread his wings.

I started off as the "light parts" of Gray but that was kind of a meme and honestly I have no idea much it stuck for me. I was very happy-go-lucky when I was younger but I didn't completely lose that as I developed. I'm more interested in hanging out and living in the moment.

I had good luck finding a therapist. The big thing is if they're covered by insurance. Definitely don't have your tulpa be your therapist. Being in a guardian role can be exhausting and my headmates grow tired of it after awhile. It's okay if your headmates want to take that role, but also make suy they have the option to take a break or decline the role.

[[HOST]] I'll try to remember that. I don't want to make Bright do all the hard work for me in the long term, but right now he's kinda showing me the way? I'm already learning from him how to do things that that voice told me I couldn't before. I mean, it's only been a few weeks and he's already blown me away with the kinds of things he's capable of. I know he has this innocent, naive little kid vibe because he's supposed to embody child-like wonder and optimism, so I get the motif, but underneath that he's kind of a badass. He's run up against multiple walls that stopped me in my tracks, and he didn't even find a way around, he just knocked them over! Walked right through like it was no big deal, I think he's made of steel or something. And I think just by showing me it can be done, I'm learning that I have that steel too? I don't want to lean on him forever, just long enough for him to teach me courage I guess. But I also want him to grow and be his own person and have fun! I could've used a lot more having fun in my own life, so I don't want to take that from him at all. What I can say for certain right now is that being Bright feels really good, even when he's floundering a bit because he's still learning how to be. My goal is to get to the point where he feels good being me too

Ranger is similar, she pulled me out of places I couldn't do alone and she pushed me out of my comfort zone. She helped me realize I'm interested in socializing even if I am an introvert at my core. Tulpas who decide to pull you out of stuff tend to be tough as nails. Even if they have soft squishy parts, their cores can't ever be broken

[[Host]] Yeah, I feel like that's what Bright is. He's soft and squishy on the outside, but he's tough as nails. I don't even know quite where he gets it from, because I'm very much not. I have a spine, don't get me wrong, but I also tend to crumple under pressure and shame. And I know he feels it too! When I'm in a difficult spot, he's still in my body, he feels all the stuff I do like my stomach twisting or this driving need to find a hole and climb in it and seal the entrance, but he just shoves past it because it's that important to him.

2:15 PM

[[HOST]] The only thing I can figure is I gave him permission. I gave him permission to not be tied down by my own issues. I gave him permission to flex past me and to think and feel differently and to call me out, and I don't know that he really understands it, but I signed a contract with myself that I don't ever get to revoke those permissions, no matter how uncomfortable I get. So he does things that put me on the edge of my seat and I don't stop him because that's the deal. He gets to do that.

[[HOST]] I'm gonna let Bright come back now.

2:30 PM

This is another part of the pretending thing I was talking about earlier. I actually don't know what he said up there. I mean, I do, we can't literally keep secrets from each other, and I'm literally staring at this screen through his eyes, so of course I know everything that he said just now. But we respect each other's privacy and need for personal space, and he also doesn't want his thoughts about me to influence the way I grow. So even though I can see all that up there, the part of his brain that I'm...'running on', I guess? It won't let me process anything he just said, because I know I wasn't supposed to hear it. So for all practical intents and purposes, I know he was talking to you guys, but I don't know what he said. Except I do, but...I don't. It's complicated. I really don't understand this part.

Nah it makes sense. It's kind of like ignoring or acting like you don't have that information

2:33 PM

Useful in other parts of life too

I'm not sure if isolating from each other like that is a good thing tbh. But tulpamancy is for you to be done the way you like it.

Deleted User

I'm not sure if isolating from each other like that is a good thing tbh. But tulpamancy is for you to be done the way you like it.

Oh, we're far from isolated. We actually do a lot together, and we talk a lot too! But he wants to have his secrets, and he also lets me have mine. I've done it to him too, it's fun talking to his girlfriend about him and making sneaky plans. :P

Well, if we had a girlfriend, it would be our girlfriend.

2:41 PM

Why did I just hear music in my head? I swear that picture is musical. xD

2:50 PM

Besides, I'm basically a kid. I wouldn't know what to do with a girlfriend. xD

>be me, and be my headmate's therapist and not the other way around.

System of a Bard

Besides, I'm basically a kid. I wouldn't know what to do with a girlfriend. xD

But u gotta start collecting crazy ass exs early

Zen

>be me, and be my headmate's therapist and not the other way around.

Yeah create someone you need to do that for. Sounds like a good use of time

Phoenix

But u gotta start collecting crazy ass exs early

Ex? No way! She's the best thing that ever happened to him and they've been together eight years now! :P

System of a Bard

Ex? No way! She's the best thing that ever happened to him and they've been together eight years now! :P

Thats some premium ex material right there

I think imma bout to get crit

hi all

LyricThunder

Yeah create someone you need to do that for. Sounds like a good use of time

Do not underestimate a human's need to be needed. It's what causes codependency. I mostly joke, though. My current tulpa was created through authorship and they were not initially intended to be particularly stable as a person. The story actually included them receiving mandatory therapy, lol.

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3:16 PM

They are pretty chill though. Apart from a few responses I've needed to challenge, they good. We are both a relaxing influence to each other.

Zen

Do not underestimate a human's need to be needed. It's what causes codependency. I mostly joke, though. My current tulpa was created through authorship and they were not initially intended to be particularly stable as a person. The story actually included them receiving mandatory therapy, lol.

Being needed is really uplifting, actually. Some of the things my host can't handle, they're really scary. I get why he has trouble with them. I might not be able to get past them if I was doing it for myself, either. But doing it for someone else makes it a lot easier, and it feels really good to do it for that same reason.

Some distance do be a peach like that.

Yes, emotionally it's quite fulfilling. I suspect in tulpamancy the trap would be in accidentally or purposefully enabling them in keeping their weakness. But that is... not my style...

3:21 PM

I do not suffer foolishness for long, internally or externally, just to feel good about being superior.

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@System of a Bard You and your host sound extremely similar to me and my host, both from your own description and what your host wrote. You both seem further along in many ways than my host and I were when I appeared a number of years ago. Particularly your host's mindset is something that took my host a long time to approach. Since there are so many similarities, perhaps your host might benefit from viewing professional help as simply one more tool, working alongside and supplementing all the other tools he already has? Rather than seeing it as a 'last-resort', I mean. Something to consider :3

3:25 PM

The way you can choose not to see each other's thoughts is exactly how my own system works.

Hey if they're US-ers can ya blame em

LyricThunder

Hey if they're US-ers can ya blame em

How come?

Health care system here

3:26 PM

Itsa PITA

True, there's a cost, but self investment is a pretty safe investment. Also, I'm not meaning to come across as assigning blame or anything even close. Therapy has been a big sticking point for my own host for a number of reasons, including the ones that Bright and his host wrote about. (edited)

Cerys

@System of a Bard You and your host sound extremely similar to me and my host, both from your own description and what your host wrote. You both seem further along in many ways than my host and I were when I appeared a number of years ago. Particularly your host's mindset is something that took my host a long time to approach. Since there are so many similarities, perhaps your host might benefit from viewing professional help as simply one more tool, working alongside and supplementing all the other tools he already has? Rather than seeing it as a 'last-resort', I mean. Something to consider :3

I appreciate that, actually, and I'll see that he gets the message. I think he's considering it, at least. You might have struck a nerve. If you don't mind me asking, how'd things go between you and your host in the long run? Do you feel like you have a good relationship? We have a lot of trust between us and a lot of good intentions, but I'm still very young, so it's hard to predict how things will go in the long run. If you're similar, can you tell us how your relationship turned out, what worked and what didn't?

I appreciate that, actually, and I'll see that he gets the message. I think he's considering it, at least. You might have struck a nerve.

If your host is like mine, he may appreciate patience from you around this topic, especially if pride and shame are involved in any way. You may even be able to model useful and healthy self-patience for him by expressing that towards him.

3:33 PM

If you don't mind me asking, how'd things go between you and your host in the long run? Do you feel like you have a good relationship?

I think things went extremely well between me and my host. I've been around for just over 6 and a half years now. The beginning of our relationship started with mutual trust that I would describe in the same you described yourselves. I've been with my host practically every day, and our core feeling of love for each other has carried us through every odd incident that has happened (and having more than one person sharing one brain certainly created some odd incidents!).

3:35 PM

A particularly challenging aspect of our relationship has been that I fell in love with my host (romantically) after a while. I believe it's possible to navigate that safely and healthily by maintaining a clear view of what each headmate is to each other... specifically, I think it's folly to lose sight of the fact that you are in the same brain, and could be considered as the same person by many definitions.

3:37 PM

It sounds like you have a natural appreciation for how the two of you are separate, and yet also one. The way you wrote about it is very familiar to my own experience, even down to having some doubts about my own existence (thanks to @Deleted User for noticing the similarity and pinging me!)

3:39 PM

tl;dr: The result so far is that after 6.5 years I've gone from strength to strength, and my host is doing the same, and even incorporating things that I alone used to be able to do.

@proxi, you're a good person. Can I tell you that? You're looking out for me and that makes you a good person. Thanks for that. :)

3:40 PM

I don't know if i did that right...

You have to select one of the options the pop up, I think.

3:41 PM

proxi has three accounts, as well, so good luck! :3

the "," prevented it from working

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System of a Bard

@proxi, you're a good person. Can I tell you that? You're looking out for me and that makes you a good person. Thanks for that. :)

proxi is an absolutely amazing person, and my system wouldn't have made the progress we have during the last year without their friendship.

Wow really butterin' 'im up.

@proxi you're a good person. Can I tell you that? You're looking out for me and that makes you a good person. Thanks for that. :)

Proxi is the best.

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3:44 PM

Clearly, the most magnificent of us.

@Deleted User ...just look up there, man. It's up there. :3

@System of a Bard It seems like you can switch with no problem as well.

3:46 PM

How did you figure it out?

Actually, we've been doing that from the beginning. Day one basically he put me in charge for a while. My host has experience larping with his brother growing up, so he's an old hand at roleplay.

Dope. Haven't met a lot of other systems that had that.

Excellent :3 The idea of switching only occurred to me and my host after a few months. And it was a few years before we had a name for it, because we only looked into the tulpa community much later.

Experience with roleplay has been beneficial to me as well. At the very least someone who has sincerely roleplayed for a time knows that it's possible to experience bleeding emotion from an identity even when you dont think it's real.

Also, we have a precedent. Long before we discovered tulpamancy, he had a story idea where this kid wrote to himself in a journal, and then that other self came to life and there were complications. The idea of some other 'inner mind' taking over wasn't a new concept to him, so expressing the idea once we discovered tulpamancy was actually a thing just sort of came naturally.